Why is it so hard to earn a living as a songwriter today? Ryan Tedder — artist, songwriter, producer and founder of Runner Music — and David Israelite — president & CEO of NMPA — join Billboard On The Record to talk through the many economic pressures facing modern songwriters. Tedder and Israelite discuss how social media and streaming has impacted the way songs are written, and how the growth of writing rooms, sampling and courtesy credits for non-writing artists has led to less money for the average working class songwriter. Israelite explains why radio’s decline threatens crucial income for songwriters, and Tedder opens up about his creative process and how embracing collaboration has become his key to crafting hits for artists like Tate McRae, Beyonce, Jonas Brothers and Maroon 5 in recent years. Additionally, the two talk about creative opportunities with emerging AI tools, like Suno, and why K-pop has become a particularly lucrative genre for songwriters today.
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Billboard On The Record is a podcast in partnership with SickBird Productions.
Host:
Kristin Robinson
Executive Producers:
Diona DaCosta
Jade Watson
Produced By:
Kayla Forman
Mateo Vergara
Edited By:
Rachel Derbyshire
0:00 – Intro: Is it harder than ever to be a songwriter?
0:34 – Meet Ryan Tedder & David Israelite — two perspectives on the crisis
1:44 – Songwriters they’re excited about right now: EJ (K-Pop Demon Hunters) & Tyler Spry
4:32 – How songwriting used to work: the Brill Building era & album economics
6:54 – Ryan’s take on the Brill Building dream — and how Nashville shaped him
9:50 – When did everything change? The death of the album & rise of streaming
13:12 – How removing barriers to entry crashed the gates for everyone
15:52 – The COVID era: how “clique writing” took over and pitch culture died
20:46 – The numbers don’t lie: writers per song, earnings, and the cost of living gap
27:01 – Ryan’s data: 30–40% less pay for the same work, with 43% higher LA rent
29:37 – Nashville vs. LA: why songwriters are fleeing to the South
35:01 – The “Elvis Tax”: when artists demand publishing credit they didn’t earn
37:53 – Ryan: “I haven’t had a year where it hasn’t happened to me”
42:11 – Solutions being discussed: per diems, master points & writer fees
45:04 – The bigger issue: how much songwriters get paid by streaming services
48:23 – (Ryan departs) Generative AI in the studio — threat or tool?
48:48 – Ryan’s take: AI will kill the “vibe guy” but empower real craftspeople
51:27 – AI as a back-office tool: finding unclaimed royalties & black box money
52:22 – NMPA sponsor break
52:54 – Radio & the dirty secret: artists don’t get paid from AM/FM radio
56:34 – Digital radio’s two-to-one imbalance — a coming crisis for songwriters
58:54 – The bright spot: why K-pop is the hottest genre for songwriters right now
59:21 – “What Would You Queue?” closing game with David Israelite
1:03:12 – Hot 100 chart roundup & season one finale
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Ryan Tedder & David Israelite Reveal What’s Really Happening to Songwriters | On The Record
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for kpop, BTS is one of the few very few that writes almost all their songs
So his favorite up and coming writer is a proven machine.
AI should be legally Limited to being a tool that supports human beings in their profession. This way it could really benefit us and make us better.
I have respect for Ryan Tedder, but don’t understand how he can talk about making an AI “session-level tremolo Chris Isaak-style guitar” in 3 seconds with prompts, then in the next breath say that his problem with AI is when it replaces artists… didn’t he replace a guitarist with AI right there?? 🤔 Or are musicians being replaced not as important as “artists” being replaced?
It’s kinda shitty on Tedder’s side to avoid the conversation on AI at its current state being a machine for stealing work of other artists and, while there are, indeed, some extra people in music production who get credited for nothing, sometimes it’s exactly that guy who comes up with a few guitar chords who brings a song to the next level despite it seemingly be insignificant.
I can feel about Ryan’s anger. However, he’s right.
That dude is absolutely encasing Ryan’s weenie in saliva